The Bells Are Ringing


WAIT!

The ads on this site tend to screw the formatting up a bit and make your visit less pleasant.

But we pay for the ads to be removed for members so why not sign up and have a better viewing experience?

Go on....Sign up. There's no messing about, it's a 20 second job!


Goals and assists from midfield

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:14 pm

Though we've clearly got the best set of strikers in the division, I think the contribution the midfield makes is gonna be crucial as we move forward this season.

Lets take a look at the performances from the top six championship sides last season.

Middlesborough

Adomah= Eight goals and eight assists
Forshaw= One goal and two assists
Downing= Three goals and seven assists
Clayton= One goal and one assist
Leadbitter= Four goals (all penalties) and four assists
Ramirez= Seven goals and two assists
Stuani= Eleven goals and one assist
Fabbrini= Six goals and three assists

= 41 goals and 28 assists in all competitions

Boro played 4321 a lot of the time and relied on midfielders to get goals. They never had a single striker get twelve or more goals.


Burnley

Barton= Three goals and two assists
Boyd= Five goals and five assists
Kightly= No goals and two assists
Jones= One goal and seven assists
Marney= no goals and two assists
Taylor= Four goals and one assist
Arfield= Seven goals and six assists

= 20 goals and 25 assists in all competitions

Burnley played 442 and had much better forwards than Boro. Gray got 23 goals and eight assists and Vokes got fourteen goals and five assists.


Hull City

Meyler= Three goals and two assists
Huddlestone= Two goals and five assists
Livermore= Four goals and three assists
Maloney= One goal and two assists
Diame= Ten goals and four assists
Hayden= One goals and no assists
Snodgrass= Five goals and seven assists
El-Mohamadi= Two goals and six assists
Clucas= Five goals and eight assists

= 33 goals and 37 assists in all competitions

Hull played the 4321 system and relied on midfielders to score and create. Also had Hernandez upfront who goals 21 goals and three assists


Brighton

Stephens= Seven goals and four assists
Kayal= One goal and seven assists
Ince= No goals and no assists
Crofts= No goals and one assists
Knockaert= Five goals and six assists
March= Three goals and one assist
LuaLua= Four goals and no assists
Colunga= Four goals and five assists
Sidwell= One goal and one assist
La Parra= Two goals and one assist
Murphy= Six goals and four assists
Skalak= Two goals and Six assists

= 35 goals and 36 assists

Brighton play a mix of 442 and 4321 and Hemed upfront got 14 goals and five assists


Derby

Bryson= Three goals and no assists
Hendrick= Two goals and three assists
Butterfield= Eight goals and one assist
Johnson= Five goals and two assists
Hughes= no goals and no assists
Ince= Twelve goals and eight assists
Hanson= No goals and one assist
Thorn= Three goals and four assists
Russell= Eight goals and nine assists

= 41 goals and 28 assists

Derby usually played with one striker upfront in Chris Martin and he got 13 goals and 10 assists


Sheffield Wednesday

Bannan= Three goals and two assists
Hutchinson= One goal and no assists
Semedo= One goal and no assists
Mcgugan= Six goals and no assists
Lopez= No goals and two assists
Sougou= Three goals and no assists
Wallace= Six goals and eight assists
McGeady= One goal and no assists
Lee= Six goals and three assists
Matias= three goals and no assists

= 30 goals and 15 assists

Sheff Wed play 442 and got 13 goals and five assists from Hooper and 15 goals and six assists from Forrestieri


So when you look at the stats it's imperative that goals and assists come from your midfield or at least 35-40 assists need to come from the midfield and your strikers need to bag around 50 plus goals between them.

Lets take a look at our midfield

Grealish= Two goals and one assist this season but prior to this campaign he'd only scored one and assisted a few goals.
Adomah= We'll need another season like the one he had last season.
Westwood= Had one season when he got six assists but he's never scored more than three goals in a season for us and the assists have dried up.
Jedinak= Not really a big provider of goals but has scored five or six in a season so hopefully he can do it again.
Tshibola= He's not scored or created a goal yet in the championship
Gardner= Two years ago he scored a combined six goals in a season for Brighton and Forest. If he starts he'll need to repeat that
Bacuna= First season with us he got five goals for us in the prem. Second season he got five assists. But it's all gone backwards since then.
Green= Barely played league football
Lyden= Has shown an ability to nick goals for the reserves but how many games will he realistically play this season?

So in closing if we can get 8-12 goals & 7-10 assists from Grealish, and the same from Adomah, then it would go a long way to moving us in the right direction. The great thing about Mccormack is he actually got around 9 assists aswell as 21 goals last season so hopefully we'll see more of that. The likes of Newcastle were smart in getting Diame and Ritchie because both have scored double figures in the championship, but we've got the better strikers so I guess it evens itself out.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Sun Oct 23, 2016 8:26 am; edited 3 times in total
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by De Kuip on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:31 pm

All hail Estatistico!!!!

Great post mate.

Okay, I know this is probably crazy, but given we've got a fair few strikers (until the AN Cup anyway) would it be a tragic waste of talent if we played Ross Mac as an attacking midfielder? Is it his game/could it be/would he stand for it?

Just a thought.......
avatar
De Kuip



Posts : 1998
Reputation : 3321
Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 100

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Villa_Dan on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:42 pm

Ross McCormack's stats for the last 3 seasons are 66 goals and 33 assists. He is going to be so important for us.
avatar
Villa_Dan



Posts : 4177
Reputation : 3962
Join date : 2014-05-13

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by FoxyAV on Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:55 pm

I can still see Ayew played as the attacking midfielder. He's such a threat when he has the ball and runs at the opposition, strong and fast, with the tricks. He just needs to know when to pass and when to have a pop himself.

Great post btw, it really does show where we're inexperienced, although I suspect the midfield will still do well. We also have an excellent dead ball specialist in McCormack, his corners are a significant improvement on previous seasons.
avatar
FoxyAV



Posts : 1613
Reputation : 1886
Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Gordonsleftboot on Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:49 pm

Brilliant post! A real eye opener. McCormacks stats are amazing too, I hadn't realised how well he has done all round. What was also interesting for me was to look at your stats and 'hear' the voice of Dr T saying that IT and technology is the way forward. Seeing these figures show why.

The down side of your stats is that they show how weak we are, baed on past statistics of the current players. Clearly we have not had the midfield contributing as it should and as you point out several members of the team in that area have not produced in the past. Expecting Adamoh to be the sole creator is clearly wrong. He can only be one of several. Grealish is going to be extremely important this season - I hadn't reaised just how much we need both he and Ayew to step up.
avatar
Gordonsleftboot



Posts : 162
Reputation : 233
Join date : 2014-05-19
Location : Where I want to be

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by De Kuip on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:30 pm

Also, looking at that list, I think apart from Ince with 20 and Russell with 17 at Derby, Adomah has the next highest combined assists and goals with 16. Good signing.
avatar
De Kuip



Posts : 1998
Reputation : 3321
Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 100

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Trotters on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:35 pm

Seems to me that if we get the line up and tactics wrong then there'll be a huge disconnect between our strikers and the rest of the team. It's no use having all that goalscoring potential up front if no one is giving them the ball.

Was it Germany who played with no recognised strikers not too long ago, preferring to use attacking midfielders?

I don't see much by way of creativity in our midfield. At least down the middle. As such, I don't think @De Kuips idea about using Mac as an attacking midfielder is too far wide of the mark.  Westwood is utilised too deep to be effective and his game time now is probably going to be limited. Beardy McFacialHair can't pass all that well. Gardner is a complete waste of time. Tish might be the ticket but it's too early in his career to be sure of much. Grealish seems to be playing too far advanced to connect the midfield.

So that leaves our best option to attack out wide. No issues here as we've got plenty of options in the winger/attacking fullback dept. But when the ball goes wide it usually means it's getting whipped in for someone to head it. I really hope we have more to ourselves than lumping it on Gestede's noggin.

If Tish steps up, he could be the making of this team. If injury, suspension or lack of his potential coming through sees his contribution limited then I'm not really sure how best we line up.

Putting Mac, Ayew, Grealish and Gestede on puts the midfield under so much pressure we'll continue to capitulate in the 2nd half.

How's this....

----------------------Bunn------
DeLaet--Elphick--Chester--Cissikho
Adomah-----Tish----Jedi----Amavi
-----------Mac----------Kodjia

Or....

----------------------Bunn------
------DeLaet--Elphick--Chester--
--------------Tish----Jedi---------
Adomah ---------Grealish---------Amavi
--------------------------------Mac
-----------------Kodjia

As we've bought a wealth of strikers, I can't see RDM playing one up front and a pure midfield behind him. We'll always have at least 2 strikers out, sometimes 3. So how do you feed them without compromising the defence?

Great post again, Estatsico!
avatar
Trotters



Posts : 9546
Reputation : 5243
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 46
Location : Brisbane

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by De Kuip on Thu Sep 01, 2016 6:44 pm

You know, just looking at that line up - if we don't put the fear of McGrath  into the opposition just with the quality personnel we have,  then I'll be surprised. Obviously we have to do the biz, but feck me this window has been like championship fantasy football with no upper limit.  Properly excited for the Forest game.
Come on you lions
avatar
De Kuip



Posts : 1998
Reputation : 3321
Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 100

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:35 pm

Thanks everyone for the kind words. Spent at least two hours doing that bloody post and when I was analysing the last team (Sheff Wed) the website I was getting the information from only went and bloody crashed LOL didn't it? So I had to look around and thankfully found whoscored Very Happy .

But yes goals and assists from central midfield will be very interesting to see this season. Does everyone know our stats in that department over the last two years?

Gana= One goal and one assist
Westwood= Two goals and two assists
Cleverely= Three goals and no assists
Delph= Two goals and four assists
Sanchez= One goal and one assist
Veretout= No goals and five assists

= 9 goals and 13 assists (and only seven of those goals came in the league)

These stats have been the achilles heal of our team since Milner left all those years ago. In his last season with us he got twelve goals and nine assists alone, incredible stuff. And on top of that we had Young getting nine goals and around fifteen assists per season and Downing chipped in with seven goals and seven assists too the season before he left.

In essence Gardner and Jedinak are the only central midfielders in the squad who have proven they can get at least six goals in a season. Seeing how Tshibola progresses though should be fun. At youth level he scored and created goals so when we finally have a working system/formation I hope to see more from him in the final third.

Right now I'd say RDM will be playing a 442

...................Gollini.................

...De Laet..Elphick..Chester...Amavi...

..Adomah..Tshibola..Jedinak..Grealish..

...............Mccormack...........
............................Kodjia.................

Would like to see how that gets on in the next home game.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Trotters on Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:41 am

Aren't Jedi's goals mostly from freekicks rather than open play though? And I'll say mow that Gardner won't get much of a look in and will finish the season with maybe a goal or 2. No more.

Same for Westwood.

avatar
Trotters



Posts : 9546
Reputation : 5243
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 46
Location : Brisbane

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:10 am

@Trotters wrote:Aren't Jedi's goals mostly from freekicks rather than open play though? And I'll say mow that Gardner won't get much of a look in and will finish the season with maybe a goal or 2. No more.

Same for Westwood.


Not sure pal. But hey, If Jedi scores six freekicks this season no-one will be complaining will they? Very Happy Just hoping someone will step up in this department. The only way we can get away with it is if Grealish and Adomah get double figures in both goals and assists and our forward fire infront of goal as we all hope they do. Having someone in the middle who can nick 7-12 goals is a godsend in this division but when you look at the options Its hard to believe anyone will get there.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by NARLA24 on Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:41 am

Best post for ages. Bravo. Not got much time as work calls again!!!!!
We should now, if these players gel before the Forest game, be looking at giving most teams in this division a right tonking.
Yes, there are going to be some feckups of course but we do, on paper look a very strong side.
RDM has to deliver now. Might just call him Adam Ant lol!
avatar
NARLA24



Posts : 2342
Reputation : 1754
Join date : 2014-09-26
Age : 47
Location : Working to bloody hard

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by De Kuip on Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:15 am

@NARLA24 wrote:Best post for ages. Bravo. Not got much time as work calls again!!!!!
We should now, if these players gel before the Forest game, be looking at giving most teams in this division a right tonking.
Yes, there are going to be some feckups of course but we do, on paper look a very strong side.
RDM has to deliver now. Might just call him Adam Ant lol!

Never noticed it before, but what the fuck is Corporal Jones doing sneaking into the back of that Adam and the Ants line up????
avatar
De Kuip



Posts : 1998
Reputation : 3321
Join date : 2014-05-20
Age : 100

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:37 am

Every two or three games I'm gonna check the stats of our midfielders to see who has created or scored goals. Remember it's vital that some sort of contribution comes from this area of the pitch if we really want to progress this season.

So far the stats are

Westwood= 6 appearances (6 starts), 0 goals and 0 assists

Grealish= 6 appearances (5 starts), 2 goals and 1 assist

Ayew= 7 appearances (7 starts), 1 goal and 2 assists

Gardner= 5 appearances (3 starts), 0 goals and 0 assists

Tshibola= 4 appearances (3 starts), 0 goals and 0 assists

Jedinak= 1 appearances (1 start), 0 goals and 0 assists

The stats are there for all to see. Right now they are worrying and we're gonna have to hope that Adomah can add something to this list once he gets going. The damning thing is Westwood has spent four years in the prem and still has no substance to his play at a lower level. Where will the goals and assists come from from central midfield? That's my big concern right now and I think we missed a trick by not getting central, creative midfielder tbh but i guess time will tell it's own story.


Last edited by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by FoxyAV on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:44 am

If you're including Grealish, shouldn't you also include Ayew?
avatar
FoxyAV



Posts : 1613
Reputation : 1886
Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Trotters on Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:23 am

avatar
Trotters



Posts : 9546
Reputation : 5243
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 46
Location : Brisbane

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:24 am

@FoxyAV wrote:If you're including Grealish, shouldn't you also include Ayew?

Ayew is a funny one because he played upfront vs Luton, on the left vs Sheff Wed and then on the right in the other games etc. But I took your advice and added him onto the list. Still doesn't make good reading tbh.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by FoxyAV on Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:32 am

@AstonThriller wrote:
@FoxyAV wrote:If you're including Grealish, shouldn't you also include Ayew?

Ayew is a funny one because he played upfront vs Luton, on the left vs Sheff Wed and then on the right in the other games etc. But I took your advice and added him onto the list. Still doesn't make good reading tbh.

Yeah, I know. Once we have decent presence in midfield (Tshibola and Jedinak) I think it will allow Jack and Ayew to get more goals and assists. Yesterday's game could be a turning point for Ayew though. He does get himself into some excellent positions and if there's no one else in a better position, sure, he should shoot, but when there's someone else in some space while everyone else is trying to stop Ayew he has to pass to them, and that's what he started doing yesterday. He has to know he's playing a different position now, and while he's not the main striker, he has to share.
avatar
FoxyAV



Posts : 1613
Reputation : 1886
Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:08 pm

So Jedinak got himself an assist yesterday which is a start I guess. Still not a goal in sight from our central midfielders and this is where I think our inability to finish off teams stems from tbh. We can't just rely on the strikers all the time.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Trotters on Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:49 pm

I saw all of a minutes worth of highlights so it's not a brilliant insight, but I'd do notice when one of our players (I think Kodjia) had the ball on the left and was starting to cut in, he was looking for late run from a midfielder. A run that wasn't coming for obvious reasons....we don't have any!

If either (or both!) the midfielders had committed themselves and the lost the ball due to a misplaced pass, a blocked shot or whatever, we'd be totally exposed defensively. So they're just not going to do it.

A shame as Gardner made a name for himself on loan and with our youth doing just that....late runs into the box and lashing the ball in.

The changing room would be intersting at the moment. RDM has brought in leaders. I do not image these players are sitting there thinking to themselves that these formations are stupid and that they are costing us games and not saying anything. Is that the reason RDM and his team reportedly came out very early after half time against Brentford? Is it possible there was an almighty row gone on?
avatar
Trotters



Posts : 9546
Reputation : 5243
Join date : 2014-03-09
Age : 46
Location : Brisbane

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by The Utterer on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:19 am

@AstonThriller wrote:So Jedinak got himself an assist yesterday which is a start I guess. Still not a goal in sight from our central midfielders and this is where I think our inability to finish off teams stems from tbh. We can't just rely on the strikers all the time.

I totally agree with this! Lack of goals from midfield or even defence come to think of it is more of an issue than conceding a few. We have only conceded 3 the once so far and have a few clean sheets, would've had loads more if it wasn't for Gollini's errors of course but he'll improve i'm sure.
avatar
The Utterer



Posts : 1107
Reputation : 1116
Join date : 2014-04-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:03 am

The gardner situation is an odd one because he's proven he can score goals in this division. But as soon as he puts on a villa shirt it's almost as if mentally he goes to a different place. Tbh I watched the Forest game back and Imo he was positive and at least took shots at goal. Then he goes and miss passes the ball for their opening goal and undoes his good work.

I'd take Gards over Westwood everyday of the week though and If Tish isn't back on Saturday then I pray RDM does the right thing and drops Mr Invisible.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by FoxyAV on Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:12 am

Interesting statistics:

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24/Show/-Aston-Villa

Westwood is in ninth, two places behind Tish, three ahead of Jedi and seven ahead of Gardner.

What's more interesting is the top five are Kodjia, Gestede, Ayew, McCormack and Grealish.
avatar
FoxyAV



Posts : 1613
Reputation : 1886
Join date : 2014-04-21
Location : Winchester

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by AstonThriller on Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:32 pm

FINALLY A GOAL GUYS!! affraid Dancing Banana cheers

This is what makes the better teams successful, when you can have goal threats from four or five positions on the pitch. If Westwood was still on the grass we know damn well we'd have lost that game today.

Anyway the stats are currently

Jedinak= 0 goals and 1 assist
Tish= 1 goal and 0 assists
Grealish= 2 goals and 1 assist
Adomah= 0 goals and 0 assists
Gardner
= 0 goals and 0 assists
Westwood= 0 goals and 0 assists

= 3 goals and 2 assists thus far.

With Ayew being employed as a striker as much as a winger I don't really think we can call him an out and out "midfielder" tbh. Jedinak was also denied by the off-side flag today too so hopefully things will start to progress on this front. If we want to start climbing the table then at least the assists tally has to dramatically improve imo because at the end of the day they are the ones who are there to supply the strikers.

Hope this is the last we see of Westwood too tbh. I'd honestly play Gardner instead of him.
avatar
AstonThriller



Posts : 1672
Reputation : 1593
Join date : 2014-04-21

Back to top Go down

Re: Goals and assists from midfield

Post by Joppe84 on Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:36 pm

I'd argue Grealish is as much a midfielder as Ayew is, maybe not on paper, but that's how we use them.
avatar
Joppe84



Posts : 3401
Reputation : 2914
Join date : 2015-06-17
Location : Oslo

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 4 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum