Re: Dalian Atkinson dead

by **Trotters** Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:31 am

Taser death footballer Dalian Atkinson 'threatened to kill his father'

By PA Aug 16, 2016

Updated: Aug 16th 2016 07:45 AM

Former Aston Villa footballer Dalian Atkinson threatened to kill his elderly father in a "manic state" before he was Tasered by police, his brother said.

The 48-year-old died 90 minutes after he was hit by the stun gun in the street where he grew up in the Trench area of Telford, Shropshire, in the early hours of Monday morning.

According to relatives Atkinson was suffering from a number of health issues and had a weak heart when he was hit by the weapon at around 1.30am.

The retired sportsman went into cardiac arrest in an ambulance on his way to hospital and medics were unable to save him.

Police officers in Meadow Close in the Trench area of Telford (Joe Giddens/PA)

The death is now under investigation by the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC), the police watchdog which investigates all instances when a Taser is used.

Atkinson's brother, Kenroy, 53, told The Sun the ex-Premier League star had undergone dialysis for kidney failure and was "not in his right mind".

He said his brother had attacked their 85-year-old father, Ernest, at his home on Monday before police were called to the scene.

"My brother had lost it. He was in a manic state and depressed - out of his mind and ranting. He had a tube in his shoulder for the dialysis and he had ripped it out and was covered in blood," he told the newspaper.

A forensic officer at the scene in Telford (Joe Giddens/PA)

"He got dad by the throat and said he was going to kill him. He told dad he had already killed me, our brother Paul and sister Elaine and he had come for him. He was not in his right mind.

"We are all devastated. Our family is heartbroken."

Using barbed wires fired at a suspect, the shock delivered by a Taser can be thousands of volts in strength and is intended to immobilise.

On Monday Atkinson's nephew, Fabian Atkinson, suggested officers would not have used the stun gun if they had known the ex-striker's medical history.

Fabian Atkinson, nephew of Dalian Atkinson, speaking to neighbours (Joe Giddens/PA)

He said: "He had some health issues that he was trying to get through and that's why his heart was weak.

"When a Taser is deployed, as soon as a Taser is deployed, they need to automatically call an ambulance. How do they know the health of the guy or the girl that they are affecting?"

West Mercia Police said officers were called amid concerns "for the safety of an individual" and then deployed the stun guns.

Atkinson was a top-flight striker in the 1990s, starting his career at Ipswich Town then playing for Sheffield Wednesday and Spanish side Real Sociedad before moving to Villa.

Atkinson was a top-flight striker in the 1990s (Sean Dempsey/PA)

He scored 23 goals in 85 appearances for the Birmingham side between 1991 and 1995, before going on to play less successfully for teams including Turkish side Fenerbahce and Manchester City. He ended his playing career in South Korea in 2001.

Atkinson's former friend and team-mate, Carlton Palmer, said he had struggled after his sporting career ended.

"It can be difficult for players when they finish and I know Dalian found it difficult," Palmer said. "When you finish as a footballer, all of a sudden at 34 or 35 you have no routine and no structure to your life, and that can be a major problem.

"It can be a very dangerous spiral and unfortunately that's what it was for Dalian."

Atkinson with his Villa manager Ron Atkinson (Sean Dempsey/PA)

Atkinson's death follows that of ex-soldier Spencer Beynon, who was Tasered by police in Llanelli, South Wales, in June after stabbing a dog and then himself.

Campaigners have raised concerns about the safety of the stun guns and called for restrictions on their use until more is known about the risks.

Police use of Tasers, which are intended as a non-lethal weapon, went up slightly last year with 10,329 uses by forces in England and Wales, a 2% rise on the previous year. However, of those, 19% (1,921) were discharges; a decrease of 3% from the previous year.

by **Trotters** Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:03 am

Before anyone jumps to conclusions, the above report was from The Sun. I've not seen anything similar from any other agencies and there is even one eye witness who has stated that the cops tasered Dalian before he even got in the house, so reports are wildly varying.

Whichever one is accurate (the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle) it would seem that he was in a very bad place regarding his health. Did medication for his kidney issues cause this? Depression? Just pure rage at something in his life? It seemed pretty clear at the start of all this that he was fairly well liked in that neighbourhood so ripping a tube out of his neck and going on a violent rampage doesn't seem to reflect what people in that street have been saying.

by Villa_Dan Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:06 am

He was definitely in the house before the police arrived. His father confirmed that - when they arrived he said Dalian told him to sit and down and not to move, he'll deal with it. Then he went outside.

by **De Kuip** Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:42 am

Just a sad tale in so many ways and mental illness whether temporary or permanent still carries such a stigma and is criminally underfunded. Not saying funding diagnosis or treatment was an issue in this case as I don't know the details. What I do know is add ignorance and fear to the mix and it's no wonder that things often turn out badly. Of those people who live with long term mh issues, 75% of them have it by the time they are 18 years old. How much of the total national mental health budget is spent on people under 18? 6% is the unbelievable answer. The police especially have to alter their approach regarding turning up and electrocuting people cos it's easy and be more mindful that there may be an underlying problem that is causing the behaviour.
Right I'll get off my soapbox!

by Villa_Dan Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:24 am

De Kuip wrote:Just a sad tale in so many ways and mental illness whether temporary or permanent still carries such a stigma and is criminally underfunded. Not saying funding diagnosis or treatment was an issue in this case as I don't know the details. What I do know is add ignorance and fear to the mix and it's no wonder that things often turn out badly. Of those people who live with long term mh issues, 75% of them have it by the time they are 18 years old. How much of the total national mental health budget is spent on people under 18? 6% is the unbelievable answer. The police especially have to alter their approach regarding turning up and electrocuting people cos it's easy and be more mindful that there may be an underlying problem that is causing the behaviour.
Right I'll get off my soapbox!

My other half has severe anxiety and depression and has hospitalised herself before. Her dad died earlier this year (February) and she has had 3 "assessments" for mental health treatment, all of whom has said she definitely needs some professional support.

6 months down the line and where are we? Received a letter yesterday saying she had to have a telephone assessment. So that's number 4! Bloody joke mate.

by **De Kuip** Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:04 am

Villa_Dan wrote:
De Kuip wrote:Just a sad tale in so many ways and mental illness whether temporary or permanent still carries such a stigma and is criminally underfunded. Not saying funding diagnosis or treatment was an issue in this case as I don't know the details. What I do know is add ignorance and fear to the mix and it's no wonder that things often turn out badly. Of those people who live with long term mh issues, 75% of them have it by the time they are 18 years old. How much of the total national mental health budget is spent on people under 18? 6% is the unbelievable answer. The police especially have to alter their approach regarding turning up and electrocuting people cos it's easy and be more mindful that there may be an underlying problem that is causing the behaviour.
Right I'll get off my soapbox!

My other half has severe anxiety and depression and has hospitalised herself before. Her dad died earlier this year (February) and she has had 3 "assessments" for mental health treatment, all of whom has said she definitely needs some professional support.

6 months down the line and where are we? Received a letter yesterday saying she had to have a telephone assessment. So that's number 4! Bloody joke mate.

I know mate - and I have to be very careful here in pointing out that my views are my own as this is dangerously close to what I do for a living (so I'll not comment any more other than specifically about Dalian), but I tell you what, A&E and the kids wards in hospitals up and down the country are full of kids in mental health crisis especially over the weekend because there's no (or inadequate) community based service out of hours for them, nor if they are really ill, a MH inpatient bed available. I'm talking a kid could need a bed here in the south west and end up in one in the Midlands as there aren't enough nationally - imagine the poor family trekking up and down the M5 or trying to find accommodation for months. That's the reality for some people. Anyway, as I said, I'll say no more, plus this is a footie forum so I'm most likely boring the tits off 99% of TBAR members (sorry folks!).

by **Trotters** Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:31 am

Not boring.

It's sad that kids can suffer from things like metal illness and yet only a small percentage of the overall budget is allocated to this?

As for Dalian, it's not practical for the cops to say "excuse me sir but you've got blood pouring out of your neck and whilst we are sorry to enquire, do you suffer any mental illness?"

But surely the answer isn't just to electrocute the bloke.

Better than a baton? Probably.
Better than a gun? Deffo.
But surely the are better options.

If this was a once-off deal due to medication, then there'll be more questions asked. I hope.

by **De Kuip** Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:37 am

What I don't understand is what the police did before they tasered 10 thousand people a year? Were all of these people beaten down with batons, sprayed with CS gas/pepper spray, or had dogs set on them? Or did not having such an easy go-to weapon as a taser that allows you to sort a situation in seconds by electrocuting someone mean that often situations were contained for longer, negotiation continued for longer and a better outcome arrived at? I don't know, I'm not a copper and have never had to face someone raving and threatening and covered in blood (unless you count wetherspoons on a Friday morning in Newton Abbot), so I can't say how much easier it makes their job and how many escalating situations are prevented, but it does seem that sometimes they go gung ho and people die.

by **Trotters** Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:51 am

Hopefully the taser is just an evolutionary step on the road to finding a more humane take down bit of tech.

Oh and Dan, sorry to hear of your missus' struggles. I hope you get the assistance you need asap

by Villa_Dan Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:57 am

I believe the recent problems in America stem from their training basically being to go to their hip as the 1st resort instead of the last resort. They have, IMO, very little conflict resolution training or situation assessment training. (This is obviously just my looking at it from a distance)

I'd wager a guess that if you had been watching the Atkinson incident you'd have seen something similar - drawing the tasers as the 1st resort not the last

Trotters wrote:Oh and Dan, sorry to hear of your missus' struggles. I hope you get the assistance you need asap

Cheers fella. It's alright, good days and bad. Would just be nice to have some outside help

by VTID85 Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:24 pm

Ultimately mental health and the treatment of it - both literally and figuratively - is still so way off the mark it's unreal. Might post more later.

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