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AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 1:22 am

The concern here is that Samuelson has put Tony up as the front-man, has told him what to say and do, pulled the wool over the club's eyes (he's done it before) and will run things himself.

So that has to beg the question why an expert in shell companies, international finance and tax havens wants to run a football club and, ultimately, who is going to be behind him as he himself will ultimately only be a front man for others?

If Xia is the true owner then you can see that he would want to use Villa as a marketing tool and to curry favour with the Chinese Govt. With Samuelson, I can only see that the club will be used as a financial vehicle for all kinds of shady characters to invest and, perhaps, clean their money.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Wriggle on Mon May 23, 2016 1:23 am

Do we actually now what role Samuelson has and will play yet though or is it all guesswork?

i haven't seen anything confirming this apart from his name on a shirt behind Tony...
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Wriggle on Mon May 23, 2016 1:26 am

Trotters wrote:The concern here is that Samuelson has put Tony up as the front-man, has told him what to say and do, pulled the wool over the club's eyes (he's done it before) and will run things himself.

So that has to beg the question why an expert in shell companies, international finance and tax havens wants to run a football club and, ultimately, who is going to be behind him as he himself will ultimately only be a front man for others?

If Xia is the true owner then you can see that he would want to use Villa as a marketing tool and to curry favour with the Chinese Govt. With Samuelson, I can only see that the club will be used as a financial vehicle for all kinds of shady characters to invest and, perhaps, clean their money.

Wow, how did people come to that conclusion? i think one too many mafia movies have been watched by some.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by BillytheKid on Mon May 23, 2016 1:27 am

HarryAVFC wrote:Samuelson is a wired though

Yeah good point mate makes sense however still Samuelson being given a board role and one so big at our club? Don't like him being our chief exec because if it was just a case of him being wired and used for that purpose by Xia then why hasn't Samuelson gone and done one by now? I am not liking it matey one bit
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Wriggle on Mon May 23, 2016 1:30 am

If any of the above is true, then i'm sure the prem league and FA will find it all out in their fit and adequate owner checks.

anyway i need to get to work... haha
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by BillytheKid on Mon May 23, 2016 1:31 am

'Football clubs are the perfect vehicles for laundering money'
• Cross-border cash flows attract money laundering
• Criminals use clubs to forge legitimate ties

Criminals are increasingly using football for money laundering and tax evasion, helped by the globalisation of the sport and financial needs of clubs, an anti-corruption body said today.

The world's most popular sport is attracting criminals with its huge cross-border money transfers and often obscure accounting methods, a unit of the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said.

"Football clubs are indeed seen by criminals as the perfect vehicles for money laundering," the OECD's Financial Action Task Force said.

While other sports such as cricket, rugby, horse racing or motor racing were also under threat, football was "an obvious candidate to examine money laundering through sport" because it dwarfed all the others in its global scale.

In one case, the report said, investigators thwarted an attempt to launder money through the purchase of a famous Italian club with funds supplied by a criminal association operating in central Italy.

"Proceedings for money laundering, insider trading, extortion, unfair competition and other offences are ongoing," it said, without naming the club.

Based on 20 cases of money laundering in football, the report concluded that the structure, financing and culture of the sport are all conducive to financial crimes. It cited two examples of tax evasion involving players in Britain, one linked to image rights and the other to a signing-on fee that was hidden from tax authorities.

Boosted by lucrative television rights, the amount of money in the game has exploded, turning venerable clubs into massive business enterprises. The heady sums paid for top players reached new heights last month when Manchester United winger Cristiano Ronaldo completed a record £80m transfer to Real Madrid.

Despite the sport's scale, with 38 million registered players and five million referees and officials, many clubs are managed by amateurs and can easily be acquired by dubious investors, the report said.

Massive money flows that move in and out of tax havens, huge and irrational transfer payments, inflated agent fees and betting networks can all help criminals trying to pass off their illicit gains as legal.

The sport's image also plays a role. Clubs are less likely to report money laundering for fear of losing sponsors, while criminals may use ownership of a club to forge legal business ties and win lucrative construction contracts.

The report cites several examples of clubs in financial difficulties whose deficits were funded by suspected criminals.

Investors may get their "laundered" funds back by selling the club's equipment and services at inflated prices, or via sales of media rights, tickets, players and merchandise.

Global transfers of young football players can also attract human traffickers, the report said. The task force recommends building better awareness and improving governance and financial transparency.



https://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/jul/01/money-laundering-football-anti-corruption
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Rawlie on Mon May 23, 2016 2:02 am

Trotters wrote:I've been wondering if Xia, being considerably lower profile than what we've been hoping, is simply a trailblazer for someone else who will enter if we get promoted.

Reading the above report where Jack Ma came into a deal for a Chinese team on a 50/50 basis once it had firmly established itself amongst the Chinese elite, has really shone some light on how Chinese think and the connection to state funds.

Exactly this.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by BillytheKid on Mon May 23, 2016 2:16 am

Rawlie wrote:
Trotters wrote:I've been wondering if Xia, being considerably lower profile than what we've been hoping, is simply a trailblazer for someone else who will enter if we get promoted.

Reading the above report where Jack Ma came into a deal for a Chinese team on a 50/50 basis once it had firmly established itself amongst the Chinese elite, has really shone some light on how Chinese think and the connection to state funds.

Exactly this.

Makes sense to me aswell
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by lukevilla on Mon May 23, 2016 3:11 am

sorry if someone else also posted this but is there any links in this to Chris Samuelson. this was from november last year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11971191/Aston-Villa-holds-talks-with-Swiss-investor-over-sale-of-club.html

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 3:54 am

It doesn't mention Samuelson and Banfill by name but you can bet it was them.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by 4BetLite on Mon May 23, 2016 4:27 am

I trust Hollis, a sound and successful businessman with an impeccable reputation.

I do not trust the media, I do not trust twitter rumour, its just a group of trolls bandying rumour around like it's gospel.

The big problem here for me is communication, Chinese being such a difficult 4 tone language that can easily be fuddled to mean the opposite of actual fact.

Everything we know as fact points to there being no problem, everything that is conjecture points to there being problems.

I guess the next thing we will hear is that all six bidders for the club are infact somehow linked to Samuelson and Co.

What we need, before midday preferably, is a statement from Hollis assuring the whole world of what he knows, the details of the deal etc.

I would be amazed if Hollis has been duped, I believe Lerner could have been, but not Hollis, who has much more at stake then making his cut from this deal, it's taken him years to build his career and I can't see him being involved in a one off deal that would destroy all that hard work.

All the negative bullshit I have found on twitter can be sourced back to lowlife blues fans who are obsessed with AVFC.

We wait and see, let's be positive, we can't sink any lower then we are already.......... can we?


Last edited by 4BetLite on Mon May 23, 2016 10:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 4:47 am

I trust that Hollis would have run the rule over Xia. The problem is that it might be that Hollis has used Socfin (http://socfin.gi) to do the Due Diligence on behalf of the club when it's really socfin that's going to be running the club!

In other words, they report back to Hollis that everything with Xia is fine and dandy, that he's the youngest professor of design from Havard, that he helped build the Beijing Olympic Stadium and grounds, that he has connections with and the backing of the Chinese Govt, etc. They verify that the money is in place and funds are secure to make Villa a powerhouse.

But it's all bullshit as Socfin themselves (Samuelson and Banfill) will be running the show and using the club for disingenuous financial purposes.

Now, none of that may be accurate but given Samuelson's history with Reading and the attempted buy-out of Everton (who, it seems, only became suspect when Samuelson failed to come up with the funds), it's a scenario that's just as likely as not.

Again, this is from a page of socfin who was either hired by Villa OR Xia to do their Due Diligence:

♣ Debt and equity financing and restructuring
♣ Sale and purchase of clubs, primarily football/soccer in Europe and the Americas
♣ Due diligence on clubs on behalf of buyers
♣ Stadium and academy naming rights, shirt & kit sponsorship
♣ Sourcing players with particular emphasis on Latin America, Africa and continental and Eastern Europe.

There is no doubt that these guys have been on the scene looking for a club for some time.
There is no doubt that they've been involved with the latest take-over involving Xia.
There is no doubt that they have a highly questionable background. We were warned by Browns fans that Lerner was clueless. But that was American egg-chasing, English football is different, so we took it with a pinch of salt. But now we have Everton and Reading fans warning us about Samuelson. I can't be of the mind that this time around it'll all work out fine and dandy.

If Samuelson is to be our Chief Exec (or on the board in any capacity), my enthusiasm for this take-over will go from cautiously optimistic (VERY optimistic) to one of absolute dread.

The good news is that the FA seem awake to this bloke and hopefully the Fit & Proper Test will be applied on a much broader scale.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by deadbuzzardalive on Mon May 23, 2016 5:38 am

People on twitter saying this is proof that Recon was only set up a month ago and Xia was only appointed director on the 13th of this month.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5-YHx1FfKxDXzM4ZnYzSHhCOGM/view?pref=2&pli=1

For what it's worth, the Recon website reconig.com, was set up in 2010, according to 'whois.com'. xwhodesign was registered 2001, on the xwho website there are references to Xia being chairman of Recon going back to 2012 and probably earlier if one looks.

As for Samuelson it's only The Sun who are saying that he's going to be Chairman and as we know they're not exactly reliable. I haven't read up on him but I get the general gist and if he's that bad then surely he wouldn't pass the Owners and Directors test.

I certainly don't believe that Recon have been set up as front, as is being suggested elsewhere.

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Alf T on Mon May 23, 2016 5:52 am

Aunt Sally is back for a moment.... Very Happy

Scepticism is healthy, imo... Mr Trotts is sceptical about 2 potential directors, and I have grown increasingly sceptical about Mr Xia.
My partner,...again...is a bluenose... and they have spent 5 years or more investigating people like Yeung and Pannu, X-step, U-Continent etc etc. They have people, lecturers in HK who have helped them over the years to ahed light where darkness rules. Some bluenoses are light years ahead of us in those fields...they've been mulling and  debated for years. We are into a second week.

SO....you don't have to agree, but keep an open mind. OK ?

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that Mr Xia had only recently joined the board of Recon.
Nobody challenged that and it was skipped over.

It does need some form of explanation though.

This is the Registration...e-mailed by my partner who is at her relations, so I hope a copied link works...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5-YHx1FfKxDXzM4ZnYzSHhCOGM/view?pref=2&pli=1...


EDIT....the rest of this post has been "timed out" it said...I've not the time to re-type it all...perhaps another day.

Check the dates anyway. It's the HK registration, not the Mainland, for RECON.
This may be before the PL and FL, rather than un-audited accounts from the Manland.
Mr Tony became a RECON Director less than 2 weeks ago.

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by 4BetLite on Mon May 23, 2016 6:04 am

I'd like to think that any parties the Doctor appoints to the board will be the right level of corrupt for Aston Villa.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by debandit on Mon May 23, 2016 7:29 am

I've seen that document saying how recon was bought this year it's completely fake.
Everything is on a straight line apart from the numbers.
Where it says day month and year they have shoved the date in the month coloum

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Chrissylee1111 on Mon May 23, 2016 7:50 am

Good spot debandit. I am hoping that the media noticed Samuelson at the Newcastle game and put 2 and 2 together and got 6. Fingers crossed he was there for DD or was one of the bidders. If he is involved then there is no way this will go through.

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by De Kuip on Mon May 23, 2016 7:54 am

Wonder if Samuelsons involvement was the reason King and Bernstein walked?
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Villa_Dan on Mon May 23, 2016 7:55 am

Stop looking at HK!!! Fucks sake.

Hong Kong is a separately administered territory which falls under the Chinese Republic. They have a companies house, China does NOT. There is no single registry for Chinese companies, they have a national database which is only available in Mandarin, and local authorities can register companies also. Again in Mandarin.

If you post "proof" from Hong Kong it's absolutely incorrect.

Companies are incorporated and Directors appointed as required by territories - Reform Acquisitions Limited was formed in July 2006 and Randy Lerner appointed that month, he took over in September 2006. No issue there.

The Samuelson like is the concerning one. Not so HK registration form.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 7:58 am

I tend to agree, debandit. It looks photoshopped to me.

The "FILED" stamp is dead straight but the bar code is wonky (I'd expect these to be the other way around)
The day and month on the date stamp is out of line with the year and the two dates don't perfectly match up as you'd expect a date stamp would (the 2016 is aligned slightly differently on both)
Tick boxes are electronic in parts, hand-written in others.

I can't say what the hell it says, of course, but I have my doubts over its legitimacy.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 8:00 am

De Kuip wrote:Wonder if Samuelsons involvement was the reason King and Bernstein walked?

You know what....I'd momentarily forgotten about those two and you'd think Bernstein would be well aware of this fella so that's a good shout, DK.

Someone should email Lord King and ask. :)
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by AVit on Mon May 23, 2016 8:19 am

lukevilla wrote:sorry if someone else also posted this but is there any links in this to Chris Samuelson. this was from november last year

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/11971191/Aston-Villa-holds-talks-with-Swiss-investor-over-sale-of-club.html

And this one
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/gossip-aston-villa-sold-secret-8708220

Again no names but this could be the group that tried to buy Reading and then Bristol Rovers, fronted by Samuelson

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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by 4BetLite on Mon May 23, 2016 8:23 am

I'm reading the whole situation as basic as this.............

Samuelson and Co were involved as advisors and possibly brokers, RECON is the owner of Aston Villa, whilst on a visit to VP to finalise it all, they all had a tour of the club and for fun we had shirts printed for all the dignitaries that were there, the Doctor's son/brother/friend took a snap and not realising it would go global uploaded it to some Chinese media site.

A UK media guy then did what they normally do and created havoc by putting 2+2 and making 600yen, which snowballed by other lazy journos cut and pasting because they have NOTHING........

One good thing is that all this crap will make Villa force it through the FA so that we can see THE DOCTOR and Moyes on our pitch with scarves raised high and shut the world up.

UTV Scarf Waving
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 8:28 am

I've just been reminded that there's a dedicated Samuelson thread. Obviously it's all take-over related so I don't know if to ask that you stick all the stuff related to Samuelson in there or merge the two threads (???).

EDIT: I've dumped all the media articles in the Samuelson thread to save reading them in here. I hope it doesn't cause any confusion.
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Re: AVFC Takeover Thread, Rumours, Gossip and Hearsay...all goes here

Post by Trotters on Mon May 23, 2016 8:47 am

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