The Bells Are Ringing


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The Bells Are Ringing


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4-4-2!.........nothing else works!

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Post by 4BetLite Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:11 pm

Maybe its time to go back to basics, we have all the ingredients to field an effective 4-4-2 formation that could cause serious problems for any opposition, we can chop and change lineups every week but with the average quality we have, nothing is working..........

We have one of the best headers of a ball in the prem in Gestede and Kozak aint bad either, we have quality wingers and midfielders that could function better in a simpler setup.

Would like to see the following, providing all fit.....


Guzan (don't want him but Bunn must be seriously shite in training for this muppet to start every game)

Richards.........Okore........... Lescott...........Cissohko


Traore..........Veretout...........Gana.............Ayew


Gestede............Kozak


Traore is not the best crosser i've seen but the sheer volume of balls he would fire in would give them chances, I might switch Ayew for Kozak and try either Sinclair Gil or Grealish on left.........

Would love to think we might bring in some better players in Jan but doubt any would be willing to sign unless overpaid, which will not happen.

That's what I think we need to try to achieve the impossible, most will hate it but nout else is working!

And remember it aint over till its over!

UTV
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Post by FoxyAV Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:21 pm

That works for me. Two strong full backs to allow Okore and Lescott to concentrate on their jobs, two strong wingers both capable of banging in crosses or cutting in to try to score and both not afraid to take on the opposition and run into the box, two strong central midfielders coming on in leaps and bounds and two strikers given all the help they can get. I do, however, think we'll be seeing a new striker coming in, someone like Austin could easily play alongside Kozak or Gestede.
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Post by The Utterer Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:25 pm

I actually agree with that line up apart from Ayew on the left, i would have either Sinclair or even Gabby out there as his pace or Sinclair's trickery would help to pull the opposition out of position thus creating space in the middle for the big men to work in

I think it's time to try something different though for sure and Kozac & Gestede is quite some ariel power especially at set pieces with Richards and Lescott going forward too!! It would surely create chances!... Then with Gabby/Sinclair and Adama on the wings creating free kicks etc that would leave it to Veretout or whoever to put dangerous crosses in and you would think teams would really struggle to cope against it.
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Post by villajk Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:39 pm

Gestede............Kozak, both rubbish ,All these Kozak lovers what has he done F---all Gestede is poorer Traore is great for 20 min how many overhit crosses, thats a shit team

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Post by Con Sun Jan 03, 2016 2:40 pm

villajk wrote:Kozak, both rubbish ,All these Kozak lovers what has he done F---all

how do you judge Kozak?

4 goals in 14 appearances, all in the 2013–14 season.



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Post by villajk Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:09 pm

control of a football
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Post by mefromhere Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:52 pm

This is exactly what we need and I've only been saying it for 3 months of this season and the past 4 years! When nothing else works, keep it simple
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Post by achilles Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:01 pm

Well 4-1-4-1 isn't working so anything else has to be worth a try.

Wouldn't it be easier to try and get a system to suit the players that we have got instead of shoe-honing them into a system that clearly doesn't suit them?
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Post by 4BetLite Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:55 am

villajk wrote:Gestede............Kozak, both rubbish ,All these Kozak lovers what has he done F---all Gestede is poorer Traore is great for 20 min how many overhit crosses, thats a shit team


Brilliantly constructive comments JK, you totally miss the point.

To judge either of them, Gestede can only be effective playing this way and kozak needs minutes.

how about giving us your team and formation and why it would work!
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Post by 4BetLite Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:09 am

The Utterer wrote:I actually agree with that line up apart from Ayew on the left, i would have either Sinclair or even Gabby out there as his pace or Sinclair's trickery would help to pull the opposition out of position thus creating space in the middle for the big men to work in

I think it's time to try something different though for sure and Kozac & Gestede is quite some ariel power especially at set pieces with Richards and Lescott going forward too!! It would surely create chances!... Then with Gabby/Sinclair and Adama on the wings creating free kicks etc that would leave it to Veretout or whoever to put dangerous crosses in and you would think teams would really struggle to cope against it.

on reflection an in form Sinclair wth Ayew off Gestede would be a better balance and give them a 3/4 games like this to see if works, not just try something new every game...........as for Gabby, sorry to say but he would not figure in any team for me now, he must go.
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Post by FoxyAV Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:24 am

4BetLite wrote:
The Utterer wrote:I actually agree with that line up apart from Ayew on the left, i would have either Sinclair or even Gabby out there as his pace or Sinclair's trickery would help to pull the opposition out of position thus creating space in the middle for the big men to work in

I think it's time to try something different though for sure and Kozac & Gestede is quite some ariel power especially at set pieces with Richards and Lescott going forward too!! It would surely create chances!... Then with Gabby/Sinclair and Adama on the wings creating free kicks etc that would leave it to Veretout or whoever to put dangerous crosses in and you would think teams would really struggle to cope against it.

on reflection an in form Sinclair wth Ayew off Gestede would be a better balance and give them a 3/4 games like this to see if works, not just try something new every game...........as for Gabby, sorry to say but he would not figure in any team for me now, he must go.

Ayew looks fantastic down the left and can cut in and score corking goals. We're all crying out for a proven striker this month and it's pretty much unthinkable one won't be brought in, whether it be someone on loan to the end of the season or an Austin to help us back out of the Championship. Ayew isn't working as the lone striker (probably because Garde hasn't worked out who - excluding Traore on the right and Sinclair on the left, a pairing he doesn't seem to want to bother with - should go on the wings) but does a great job and causes right backs no end of trouble. I don't know what's happened to Sinclair, probably gone off the boil from not being played much and when he is, out of position on the right. Gabby used to do the job but his time must be gone and Grealish will possibly go out on loan unless Garde decides he can do a job. For me though it's Ayew on the left.

Incidentally, wouldn't the match at Wycombe be a great place to start a load of U21 and sidelined players we intend to keep in a 4-4-2? With injuries to Hutton, Sanchez and Traore (and Okore?) we can't afford to lose any more of our starting 15 or so players, so start players like Sellars and Robinson up front, Cowans and Calder (maybe Gardner?) in the middle, Mason in defence or midfield, Kinsella at LB and so on. I don't know if Baker is back but probably start Clark, not sure who with though, Donacien has had his loan extended. Our Academy players need to know they have a real chance of making it into the first team either in the second half of this season if injuries bite or next year in the Championship.
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Post by 4BetLite Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:50 am

FoxyAV wrote:
4BetLite wrote:
The Utterer wrote:I actually agree with that line up apart from Ayew on the left, i would have either Sinclair or even Gabby out there as his pace or Sinclair's trickery would help to pull the opposition out of position thus creating space in the middle for the big men to work in

I think it's time to try something different though for sure and Kozac & Gestede is quite some ariel power especially at set pieces with Richards and Lescott going forward too!! It would surely create chances!... Then with Gabby/Sinclair and Adama on the wings creating free kicks etc that would leave it to Veretout or whoever to put dangerous crosses in and you would think teams would really struggle to cope against it.

on reflection an in form Sinclair wth Ayew off Gestede would be a better balance and give them a 3/4 games like this to see if works, not just try something new every game...........as for Gabby, sorry to say but he would not figure in any team for me now, he must go.

Ayew looks fantastic down the left and can cut in and score corking goals. We're all crying out for a proven striker this month and it's pretty much unthinkable one won't be brought in, whether it be someone on loan to the end of the season or an Austin to help us back out of the Championship. Ayew isn't working as the lone striker (probably because Garde hasn't worked out who - excluding Traore on the right and Sinclair on the left, a pairing he doesn't seem to want to bother with - should go on the wings) but does a great job and causes right backs no end of trouble. I don't know what's happened to Sinclair, probably gone off the boil from not being played much and when he is, out of position on the right. Gabby used to do the job but his time must be gone and Grealish will possibly go out on loan unless Garde decides he can do a job. For me though it's Ayew on the left.

Incidentally, wouldn't the match at Wycombe be a great place to start a load of U21 and sidelined players we intend to keep in a 4-4-2? With injuries to Hutton, Sanchez and Traore (and Okore?) we can't afford to lose any more of our starting 15 or so players, so start players like Sellars and Robinson up front, Cowans and Calder (maybe Gardner?) in the middle, Mason in defence or midfield, Kinsella at LB and so on. I don't know if Baker is back but probably start Clark, not sure who with though, Donacien has had his loan extended. Our Academy players need to know they have a real chance of making it into the first team either in the second half of this season if injuries bite or next year in the Championship.

yes foxy, have to agree with most of that, I feel that an inform Sinclair is a real asset down the left and Ayew is 1st of the sheet for me, I feel the balance is better. Calder and Mason look like great prospects, Gardner never fit!

we do have some players who can function well in advanced modern formations but playing them alongside strictly 4-4-2 types is never gonna work, Gestede is key for me, he looks crap because we are not playing to his strengths, if we feed him he will score,, if not Kozak will imo.

I also think Richards at RB is big for us, excluding Amavi the back 4 above is as good a setup as we have. We need someone good behind Traore, I think it works. I really like Gana but he is a bit small, would like a monster in there instead with Veretout who I rate highly.

1st order of business for me is keeper, Guzan out please, spend big here! this is achievable, what will be harder is a top class striker who will happily come. we need a Souness/Keane type who I would make captain. always preferred a midfield captain.

UTV

P.S Leics have played this formation all year with an avg squad, they function well and so their confidence has grown and a few of them have turned out to be real top class players.

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Post by FoxyAV Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:50 am

4BetLite wrote:P.S   Leics have played this formation all year with an avg squad, they function well and so their confidence has grown and a few of them have turned out to be real top class players.

Interesting you mention Leicester, I always liked Albrighton but he didn't work in a 4-3-3, which was the only formation Lambert would play, so he didn't get a look in and was let go. Now we have Garde in (ignoring Sherwood, who never quite worked out what formation he wanted to play) and he wants to make the players - a lot of whom were bought for a 4-3-3, Westwood in the middle of the midfield 3 for example - fit a 4-1-4-1 with wingers. Bearing in mind Gestede was bought in pre-Garde and needs wingers to bang in balls for him to head in, Traore was presumably brought in as a right winger and I assume the board/Sherwood/scouts/Fox's second cousin's nephew/whoever else was involved in signing were happy with what we had on the left, i.e. Grealish and Sinclair (and possibly Gabby). We know Grealish doesn't really work on the left of a 4-1-4-1 (maybe he needs regular time there?) so why have we had Gestede playing on his own without Sinclair on the left and Traore on the right? Was it Norwich where we had Richardson on the left and Sinclair on the right? It's all good and well us looking for the right winger like Albrighton we need to bang in the crosses but if Sinclair isn't going to be played properly (and told to make runs and bang in crosses) and if Gestede is the only striker in the box, what's the point? Ok, Traore is now injured, but again and again and again it seems like we've been intentionally crippled by managers insisting on playing players out of position. The only one that's worked out of position is Ayew, and oddly enough, Bacuna, who while not a particularly good RB or LB or even midfielder, can do an acceptable job. You know, ignoring throwing the ball straight to Defoe.

I hope Garde and so on know what they're doing this month. It's probably too late to save this season.
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Post by Villa_Dan Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:40 am

I still want a bloody diamond. 442 

------------------New Keeper------------------

Hutton-----Richards---Lescott/-----Cissokho
                                 Okore

----------------------Sanchez/------------------
                            Westwood

--------------Veretout----------New CM/-------
                                           Gana

--------------------------Gil------------------------

-----------------Traore--------Ayew--------------

Veretout and Gana (although I'd prefer a new CM) can drift out wide, as can Traore and Ayew
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Post by Dazzle Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:54 am

The system isn't the problem, we simply don't have good enough players. We don't have a good enough striker, we don't have good enough midfielders. I still say a competent enough defence can be constructed out of what we have, it just requires playing Micah at RB, Cissokho at LB, with two from Okore, Lescott, Senderos, Clark, Baker to partner at CB. We have never come close to replacing Gareth Barry in midfield, someone who is calm and can win a challenge and then pass the ball to another villa player. The current midfield is soft, far too soft for premier league football.
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Post by ViewFromT2 Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:22 pm

Dazzle wrote:The system isn't the problem, we simply don't have good enough players. We don't have a good enough striker, we don't have good enough midfielders. I still say a competent enough defence can be constructed out of what we have, it just requires playing Micah at RB, Cissokho at LB, with two from Okore, Lescott, Senderos, Clark, Baker to partner at CB. We have never come close to replacing Gareth Barry in midfield, someone who is calm and can win a challenge and then pass the ball to another villa player. The current midfield is soft, far too soft for premier league football.

If half of the Micah Richards rumours are true...then he shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, never mind captain of it!!...and I have heard that playing centre back is in his contract!

Senderos is off to Lazio according to reports. So Okore (when fit), Lescott and Clarke are all we have. We are linked with yet another unknown French player....centre back Willy Boly!

I wouldn't play Hutton at all. He is a liability. This is a key position for january transfer.
We definitely need a right back. Cissoko is fine until Amavi returns.

As for Guzan...personally I would rather Jed Steer was given chance now. Let's see if he has what it takes. Otherwise a new keeper must be a priority this month.

Garde liked to play a 4-4-2 diamond (or 4-1-3-2) at Lyon and we have looked better when playing that way.
I don't think Gestede is good enough, although he is best suited to the system. If we can find a striker (he had Gomis at Lyon) to accompany Ayew then we may start to convert the chances we are starting to create. I would like to see a striker in and around the 6 yard box for once!

If he manages to persuade Toulalan to come on loan, then our midfield will have the organisation it badly needs. Put him at the foot of the diamond and let Veretout and Gana get up and own the pitch. Gil in behind the front men and we may get some joy.

So a keeper, a right back, a centre back, a midfield general and a striker....how likely we will get that? Is it 3 loans we can do? if so, we are looking at 2 buys and 3 loans.
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Post by EbeneezerGoode Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:00 am

ViewFromT2 wrote:If half of the Micah Richards rumours are true...then he shouldn't be anywhere near the squad, never mind captain of it!!...and I have heard that playing centre back is in his contract!

Have been hearing of late hes a bit of a sugarbag behind the scenes. Is Garde too weak to drop him or take away the captaincy?
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