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Villa youth team/academy overrated?

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Post by mickeywya Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:22 pm

With the news that Stones could be leaving Everton for £30 million. Does anyone else think our youth team is massively overrated?

If you add all our youngsters transfers up from the past 10 years, i doubt it will equal half of £30million.
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Post by ViewFromT2 Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:59 pm

mickeywya wrote:With the news that Stones could be leaving Everton for £30 million. Does anyone else think our youth team is massively overrated?

If you add all our youngsters transfers up from the past 10 years, i doubt it will equal half of £30million.

all relative mate.....Stones isn't worth £10m from what I've seen. The media are all over him cos he's english and he plays for Everton....the media love Everton!
Think Chelsea would be crazy to pay that for him, especially as they already have Zouma who is far better in my opinion.

But to answer your question, yes...I think our academy is living off past reputation. However, or two chinks of light offered tonight, Riccardo Calder in particular.
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Post by Guest Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:56 pm

I'm gonna quote myself here cause I'm a lazy bastard. Sorry. Scarf Waving

ME wrote:Gary Gardner, Craig Gardner, Chris Herd, Andreas Weimann, Whittingham, Hitzlsberger, Hendrie, Barry, Gabby, Cahill, Vassel, Davis, Ridgewell, Clarke, Baker, Albrighton, and now you get Robinson, Grealish, Donacien, Toner, Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, Lyden, Calder and Sellars etc. coming through. They are the only team to ever win the nextgen series, and have won leagues and cups the last 10-15 years.

And fwiw, Daniel Sturridge was an AVFC academy player.

Some of those have played in national sides, some have played in the champions league, a lot have played in the English top series, and some of them didn't/won't make it, but in general our academy is bloody great if you ask me.

The main problem isn't developing good players. The main problem is being able to KEEP the good players you develop. Main example would be Dan Crowley. We spend lots of time and money developing him and he fucks off to Arsenal before going professional as they offer tons of money. We get zero compensation and Sky will wank all over him as another brilliant Arsenal youth, while he in fact was a Villa academy graduate.
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:11 am

mickeywya wrote:With the news that Stones could be leaving Everton for £30 million. Does anyone else think our youth team is massively overrated?

If you add all our youngsters transfers up from the past 10 years, i doubt it will equal half of £30million.

Challenge accepted.

Me wrote:Darius Vassell Man City £2,000,000 27 Jul, 2005
Wayne Henderson Brighton £35,000 20 Jan, 2006
Steven Foley Bournemouth £20,000 30 Jan, 2006
Pete Whittingham Cardiff £350,000 11 Jan, 2007
Steve Davis Fulham £4,000,000 05 Jul, 2007
Liam Ridgewell Birmingham £2,000,000 03 Aug, 2007
Gary Cahill Bolton £5,000,000 30 Jan, 2008
Luke Moore West Brom £3,000,000 28 May, 2008
Gareth Barry Man City £12,000,000 01 Jul, 2009
Craig Gardner Birmingham £3,000,000 26 Jan, 2010
Andreas Weimann Derby £2,500,000 18 Jun, 2015
Barry Bannan C Palace ?  31 Aug, 2013 - transfermarkt lists it as £1,5000,000 but I thought it was closer to £3,000,000
Jonathan Hogg Watford Signed 26 Aug, 2011
Shane Lowry Millwall Signed 27 Jan, 2012
Graeme Burke Notts Co Signed 10 Jul, 2015
Jordan Graham Wolves Signed 03 Jan, 2015
Daniel Johnson Preston Signed 23 Jan, 2015
Samir Carruthers MK Dons Signed 06 Aug, 2014


Which is well over £ 30 million, nevermind half of it

Now that's just a rough estimate, and the players in italic I don't even know the fee for.


Last edited by Joppe84 on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:05 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:17 am

For what it's worth. The real discussion should be the so called homegrown rule, and how the richest clubs are able to take youth players before they turn professional and you get close to zero compensation. Not only is the homegrown rule detrimental to the national side, but the poaching of talent (like Arsenal are doing) is basically making it fairly pointless to run an academy for most teams.
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Post by mickeywya Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:37 pm

Which is well over £ 30 million, nevermind half of it wrote:

Are we really counting Barry as one of our own when we paid over a million quid for him from Brighton? Id take his £12million off the total. Even then tho, you've just listed pretty much every player we've sold form our youth team and only made £30million-ish.

all relative mate.....Stones isn't worth £10m wrote:

all relative that no one has ever bid £20-30million for our players. And what past reputation your refering to? Vassell and Steven Davis?

Main example would be Dan Crowley wrote:

only example

Gary Gardner, Craig Gardner, Chris Herd, Andreas Weimann, Whittingham, Hitzlsberger, Hendrie, Barry, Gabby, Cahill, Vassel, Davis, Ridgewell, Clarke, Baker, Albrighton, wrote:

Barry (ex Brighton) Hitz, and Cahill aside, the rest haven't done much and we didn't sell for much.

Robinson, Grealish, Donacien, Toner, Rushian Hepburn-Murphy, Lyden, Calder and Sellars etc. coming through. wrote:

Cant really count them yet as they could easily ed up like (and most probably end up like) Bewers, Cooke, Edwards, Walker, Byfield, Jackman etc.

And fwiw, Daniel Sturridge was an AVFC academy player. wrote:

Proves that its crap as we let probably our best prospect leave.

All in all, Villa fans/people praise the academy, but were no where near the success of Man U, West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds and Liverpool
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Post by achilles Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:47 pm

I was recently told by someone who is involved in the academy (albeit looking in) that it is poor (although his words were a darn sight stronger). The discussion then turned to the fact that the better players then look for opportunities to leave the club at the earliest opportunity hence no decent players coming through the academy. I am talking about players before they sign professional contracts here.
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:41 pm

Mick wrote:Are we really counting Barry as one of our own when we paid over a million quid for him from Brighton? Id take his £12million off the total. Even then tho, you've just listed pretty much every player we've sold form our youth team and only made £30million-ish.

You are the one that set the rules. Barry was in our youth setup and he was sold within the last 10 years. If I'm doing something wrong here I'll gladly fix it. I've listed players that was sold from the last 10 years while having a history from our academy. Like you said.

Mick wrote:only example

No? I can probably run an endless list of young talented players coming through academies which end up being poached by wealthier clubs. However that requires a lot more research.


Mick wrote:Barry (ex Brighton) Hitz, and Cahill aside, the rest haven't done much and we didn't sell for much.

This is such a weird arguement. Lets ignore the ones that did really well and focus on those that didn't. I can't accept that  :)  And fwiw, Sturridge which has been wanked about for the last 2 years came through our academy. Some of them have gone on to win the Premier League for other clubs, and Champions League, and the Euros and fuck knows how many other things.  Reads well I reckon. All the last 20-25 years. And I think Vassel, Gabby and Hendrie all came through our youth setup and they all got in the England squad at some point.



Mick wrote:Cant really count them yet as they could easily ed up like (and most probably end up like) Bewers, Cooke, Edwards, Walker, Byfield, Jackman etc.

Or they could end up like Sturridge, Gabby, Barry, Vassel, Hitz, Cahill etc. What do we know.


Mick wrote:Proves that its crap as we let probably our best prospect leave.

All in all, Villa fans/people praise the academy, but were no where near the success of Man U, West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds and Liverpool

I'm sorry that's some weak reasoning. Doesn't make sense on any level. Whether a talent that came through the academy moved on and made it big, doesn't remove the fact that he DID come through our academy.
And if it's on any interest after we won the Nextgen cup, which essentially was that level CL. An expert on the channel I watched talked about talent development and he went on about our youth development and while Leeds and Southampton, West Ham etc. was ace, AVFC did some really good stuff. And the quality of the academy was one of the reasons invitations went out. And this came from someone that worked in the business.

But each to their own. I think this is one of those people will complain about unless we develop players like Messi. And I'm willing to bet most people won't realise how good this academy is until it's gone.
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Post by Guest Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:50 pm

achilles wrote:The discussion then turned to the fact that the better players then look for opportunities to leave the club at the earliest opportunity hence no decent players coming through the academy. I am talking about players before they sign professional contracts here.

And that's the problem. As seen from the Crowley story. They can just throw money at them before they go professional and there is nothing you can do.

I bet Grealish would be long gone as well, if it wasn't for his family being local.


Last edited by Joppe84 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Mad Mac Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:19 am

mickeywya wrote:

Are we really counting Barry as one of our own when we paid over a million quid for him from Brighton? Id take his £12million off the total. Even then tho, you've just listed pretty much every player we've sold form our youth team and only made £30million-ish.



all relative that no one has ever bid £20-30million for our players. And what past reputation your refering to? Vassell and Steven Davis?



only example



Barry (ex Brighton) Hitz, and Cahill aside, the rest haven't done much and we didn't sell for much.



Cant really count them yet as they could easily ed up like (and most probably end up like) Bewers, Cooke, Edwards, Walker, Byfield, Jackman etc.



Proves that its crap as we let probably our best prospect leave.

All in all, Villa fans/people praise the academy, but were no where near the success of Man U, West Ham, Southampton, Everton, Arsenal, Leeds and Liverpool

In relation to Stones who Everton paid Barnsley £3m for I think we should be able to include Barry as one of ours.
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Post by Guest Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:18 pm

Villa academy product England captain tonight?
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