The Bells Are Ringing


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Our net spend...

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Post by Trotters on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:19 am

It's huge.

And goes to highlight how badly we've been mismanaged. For all that spending - and we've cut back for so long now so if you take out the last few seasons it looks even worse - we've done precisely nothing; won nothing; achieved nothing.

All that for relegation struggles and mid table mediocrity.

Clueless buffoons. But no doubt there'll be certain groups on the internet that will defend this somehow. For me though, it's confirmation of what I already knew.


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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:29 am

It'd be interesting to shorten the time period to just the Lerner years. I'd say we would rank higher over that period.
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:38 pm

That is truly staggering. I knew it would be like that for the years 2006-2010, but to think it covers that ten year period? Unreal.

We are such a badly run club. Surely questions need to be asked?
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:53 pm

Only £112M incoming over ten seasons?

Milner was £26M but with Ireland (the useless midfielder, not the nation) coming the opposite way accounting for £8M.

Downing was £20M.

Ashley Young? Can't remember, but over £10M.

So those three sales account for over £50M probably, so something seems not correct with the figures.

That said, if Everton have really achieved what they have (regular top six/seven) with a negative figure then that is some going.
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:58 pm

Young was £17m.

Which by the way is why I have become less of a MON critic in time. We bought Young, Downing and Milner for a combined £28m and sold them for double that (+Ireland). Downing and Young alone brought in £37m, more than we paid for the three of those combined.

We also were able to sell players like Collins and got great service from Stan Petrov Luke Young, John Carew, NRC, Cueller.

Something of a myth has grown that all our financial problems stem from MON. Yes there were Beyes, Heskeys, Shoreys, Warnocks, and Dunnes (player of the year 09/10 ( arguably!). But under Houllier and McLeish we didn't even get anything back for outlay on the Bents, Makouns, N'Zogbias, Huttons,Givens.

Waste continued long after MON had left.
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:20 pm

Can't agree that Nigel Reo-Coker (that's who you meant?) and Luke Young gave great service.

So those three brought in £55M. We must've let alot go for nothing or nominal fees then, even before MON turned up.
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:48 pm

Great service was an exaggeration. But they were important(ish) players in a side that was top six three years in a row. He did waste money, no doubt, but those who came after him were just as wasteful to take us to the heights of ninth and sixteenth and leave us with no saleable assets.
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Post by Guest on Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:04 pm

We have, for whatever reason, signed a number of players for decent fees and let them go for nothing. NRC was £8.5million. Released in the end. Sidwell was what? £6million? Let go on a nominal fee. Dunne was £5million. Released like NRC. How much did we get for Curtis Davies who cost £8million? I don't remember it being that much.

How many players other than the four mentioned earlier in the thread have we made a profit on in the past ten years? Very few, unless you count sold off youth players like Gardner, Davis, Moore or Cahill. None of whom raised much at all.
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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:10 pm

I've said it before that when Curtis Davies was at the Villa he was the worst centre back here. If he came back he'd now be the best. That's how shit we've become.
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Post by Guest on Wed Mar 26, 2014 10:58 pm

Disagree Ian, Vlaar and Okore are better and IMO as are Clark and Baker - James Chester (minus big fuck up tonight) cracking player makes Davies look better than he is.
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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:05 am

You are expressly forbidden from disagreeing with me!
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Post by Trotters on Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:51 am

Billy McBingo wrote:It'd be interesting to shorten the time period to just the Lerner years. I'd say we would rank higher over that period.

I'm putting this together now. It makes for horrible reading.
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Post by Trotters on Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:23 pm

Our net spend... Club-s10


Financially, it would seem that Arsenal are by far the best run club. They've speculated massively on players, yet have turned a profit of around a million quid a year on average.

Villa have spent a similar amount but that's where any similarity ends.

Taking out Man City and Chelsea due to their ownership, the average net spend per year is £7.38million. Villa's is just over double that.
If you include the outrageous spending of those two clubs, Villa are still over a million quid above the average.

So it would seem that the "PREPARED" on our badge should be changed to "SPEND TWICE AS MUCH, DO TWICE AS BAD".
I guess Doug never passed on his "An apple bought well is an apple half sold" philosophy to Randy and Paul.
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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:09 pm

Interesting thing about 2006/7 until now and the reference to the success of Arsenal. That was the season that The Emirates Stadium opened, giving them 22000 extra people through the turnstiles at a ground where, when it opened, pies were £4 each. They must have taken at leat £1m extra over the turnstiles and heaps more through extra corporate advertising / facilities, each game. They are like someone who has landed on Mayfair and Park Lane, then filled them with hotels. That sort of performance off and on the field cannot be sniffed at. Chelsea will be in trouble when Abramovich eventually goes. Arsenal seem self sufficient but how about Villa?
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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:44 pm

Is the aim of the cutbacks to reach self sufficiency? It would make sense and make the club a more attractive proposition for the sale. That said, Eastie's info puts a new slant on that. If Lerner is still willing to throw more cash at it and Lambert is behind our 'self sufficient' approach (with the players we've brought in we probably wouldn't make a loss on transfers) it certainly raises an interesting question.

Personally, if Lerner is still willing to spend money I'm not going to criticise him for it. He probably would be as concerned as we are about his money going on relegation battles. How the money has been spent is probably due to the football managers rather than the owner.

Interesting to note that Sunderland are only a little bit better than us in terms of spending, too. They've managed even less than us for that largesse.
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Post by Trotters on Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:05 pm

Sunderland's futures are alarming and if they do go down, they're properly fucked.

Self-sufficiency is an interesting topic. How do you define it? Arsenal, under Wenger, have had a seemingly constant revolving door of players coming into and out of the club with the net result being positive.

But will they be able to keep doing that post-Wenger? Maybe the scouting system is a highly tuned machine that's got nothing to do with the manager?

This is where I think a DoF would not only work but in this day and age of spiralling costs, is essential. He sets up the scouting networks, he determines with the CEO how the money gets spent and then works with the manager to get the style of football right.

If the manager leaves, the whole footballing framework is still intact and functional. The new manager might have new ideas so you tweak your scouting networking and funding accordingly.

Villa's approach - and to be fair, everyone else's - just fails. New manager? That means new coaching staff, new scouting methods, new payment structures, new style of play, new everything. And it's a massive gamble. And usually only good for a few years.

I know the idea of a DoF gets poo-poo'd and every time I've suggested it in the past I've been flamed for it but fact is, there current system does not work. There's no working interface between the manager and the owner; there's no permanent framework to work within.

Einstein said that the definition of insanity is to do the same things over and over and expect different results. So a Randy has spent up big and it failed and then he's had this rather brutal austerity period. What next? Spend big again?

Without the right people, the right checks and balances and the right structure, it's all completely pointless and we'll just go through endless boom/bust cycles (although the boom won't be all that).

Anyway, I think the chart makes a mockery of anyone that tries to claim that things are ok under the current leadership. They're just not.
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Post by Guest on Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:37 pm

I agree with much of that Troy. The outstanding example of what you are saying is probably Swansea, I'm not sure if they have a DOF but they certainly have a way of playing that is imprinted on the club. They have performed a number of managerial changes without too much of an impact. Martinez left, in came Rodgers, when he went in came Laudrup. The only problem with a DoF or in Albionspeak 'Sporting Director' is that you might have issues when he leaves rather than than the manager. Look at the problems at Albion since Dan Ashworth left. The problems with the manager, the other technical guy they had in who ended up playing too big a role and so on.

The Arsenal case is definitely interesting. I can't help but think they are moving away from self sufficiency. For a long time the fans at Ashburton Grove have whined about Arsenal not spending enough money to win trophies and the news coming out of the club is that they are now willing to spend more after the new stadium had lead to less investment. They've bought Ozil, had a £40million bid for Suarez rejected. And as you say Wenger won't be there for ever, so it'll be interesting to see how things develop in that way over the next few years.
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